“My desire to be clever overrides anything”
In which we discuss all things flirting! What constitutes flirting? Is it fun? Are we good at it? Will it lead to WooHoo?
We begin with being excited about having Lucy in person! And biscotti with wine! It’s a good day.
Side note: We are posting this in the midst of a global pandemic. However, we recorded this a couple years ago. Sorry it took us this long to get it out, but we hope you enjoy this blast back to simpler times.
What do you use flirting for?
For getting a date? For getting laid? For getting out of a parking ticket?
(We have never used it to get out of parking ticket. We aren’t really sure how to go about that.)
Maisie knows that some people just have flirty sort of personalities, and she just doesn’t understand how that works. How do people be flirty all the time? Kelly points out that they probably aren’t even trying, or at least aren’t trying to come off as flirting, it’s just who they are.
Gina thinks she only successfully flirts as part of a group. She is not sure if she’s flirting one on one, and it’s often unintentional if she is. She more often tries to win over the group: a group seduce, for friend purposes!
Sissel specifically touches people to have sex. She doesn’t like touching much otherwise.
Gina and Kelly really don’t think of the chatting they do with someone they are interested in as flirting… But maybe it is.
Flirting with a Brick Wall
Hannah is very good at being witty and flirty. She would flirt with a brick wall and convince it to have sex with her if she could. We always use her to respond to our dating app connections. She’s also been told on many an occasion that she’s been flirting really hard with someone she thought she was just talking to…
So, what is the definition of flirting?
To flirt is to behave as though attracted to or trying to attract someone but for amusement rather than with serious intentions.
Google
or…
To court triflingly or act amorously without serious intentions.
Dictionary.com
So apparently the frivolity is key? Whodathunk! Certainly not the Throbbers, but we did quickly acquiesce to the accuracy of the definitions. You do think of it as light hearted…
If you are like Hannah, and think about things in the context of the Sims, flirting is one of the first steps to getting to the Woo Hooing! (aka sex).
Sims sidebar:
Back in the old days, there was a cheat to make your sims move, and you could move them while having sex to see what it looked like despite the Sims usually hiding under the covers. (It didn’t look that exciting, sadly.)
At 11, all you know about sex is from the Sims and Neopets.
Did you know that Neopets was founded by Scientologists? Not Sissel!
Other sidebar: Gina’s mic is really a limp dick during this recording… it’s so sad.
Flirting Stories!
Hannah once went to an Anime convention at 17 and saw this cool anime cover band! Afterwards she was talking to the violinist and he asked some question about what she was studying in college and she revealed she was a senior in high school. He removed himself from the conversation shortly after, and Hannah’s friend informed her that he had been flirting and he bolted when he realized she was a minor. She was oblivious!
Kelly points out that everyone has a different definition or understanding of flirting. She’s always struggled with identifying when flirting is happening.
Sissel has always had good flirting-dar (yes, that is the term), maybe due to watching too much tv, or maybe being so sexually repressed for so long. She’s always been frustrated watching her friends get flirted with and them being completely oblivious!
Very recently before this podcast, Maisie was at a party and having a very jovial conversation with a young man, that she assumed was friendly. However, upon seeing photos of them together, in close proximity she began to wonder if perhaps they had been flirting!
There’s also the issue that sometimes you don’t perceive people as sexual beings and that makes it hard to discern flirting from them. Gina is immediately suspicious of people who come off as non-sexual because they obviously must be extremely sexual! (Interesting logic.)
I Was Just Being Friendly!
It’s really difficult, because sometimes you think you’re having a very casual non-flirty conversation, and then you get asked out or the other person gets weird and creepy. Just because a woman is giving you attention or being nice doesn’t mean they want to date you! Women are socialized to be polite and friendly!
Maisie, Hannah, and Kelly have felt this very intimately.
Sissel is pretty sure she has been the creepy awkward person misinterpreting the situation as flirting. Her long time male friend told a guy she eventually ended up dating, that she was extremely sexually frustrated and that he should go for it. She can’t be offended; it was too accurate.
Hannah brings up how sometimes someone being into you is an immediate turn off.
Recognizing Flirting
Gina suspects she was flirted with the day of this recording. An underling of her student org reached out to her via private message to double check a post he made, and referred to her as Madame President. IT WAS JUST BEGGING for flirty response such as, “I like the sound of that”. But Gina resisted mostly due to lack of interest, but also probably because she is ethical AF!
Throbbers concur that it is flirting.
Maisie was last-minute invited to a guy’s birthday party (the guy is the roommate of Sissel’s boyfriend). She added him on Facebook so she’d have access to the pictures from the event. But he immediately messaged her after accepting the friend request, they then proceeded to have some mildly flirty messages back and forth.
We then proceeded to talk too much about this guy and the intricacies of his behavior… Sorry.
What Is Your Flirting Move?
Lucy’s “move”, which she’s never really cultivated, is touching their leg. (She had to be informed this was, in fact, a move.)
Sissel is somewhat naturally a flirt, so she’ll do it when she shouldn’t, but also she uses touch. She mostly touches the arm and chest.
Kelly states that men sometimes need something a little more obvious…so, physical touch.
Gina is very frustrated because she’s extremely touchy, so she’s always touching. She is totally susceptible to recognizing desire through a touch, so it’s confusing! While group flirting, she is usually challenging others in the group, arguing with them. She gets turned on by the situation but not specific people.
Sissel brings that up because when she was in a group situation with Gina recently, she noticed that one of the members felt flirty one on one, and Sissel was into it, but as soon as they were in a group the sexual attraction dissipated.
Freya visit!
Cats are quite flirty… let’s be real.
Playing Hard to Get
Why is it a thing?
Kelly points out that in her many years of living she has mostly had only creepy people openly into her, which makes her question everyone who’s into her. It may or may not be a symptom of being a woman in the USA.
Maisie had a very interesting conversation with her dad, where he admitted that only the creepy guys show interest, and she should stay away from them.
Lucy tells the story of getting over the mental block of someone being into her at the beginning of a relationship and feeling like, ew. But she realizes that it’s just a weird feeling that you have to get over sometimes because not everyone who’s into you is creepy. You just might be compatible. You obviously want to be with a partner long term who is into you just as much as you are into them.
Modern Romance does discuss research that playing hard to get to a degree on dating apps is extremely effective for getting dates. Sigh.
It’s the Mr. Darcy effect… Fuck you Darcy.
Gina suspects the creepy-guy factor has something to do with our types and age group. The guys that get past their own insecurities fastest that are then willing to put themselves out there are usually assholes. With more maturity the other guys become more confident.
Lucy points out the trope of intelligent girls dating aloof guys. Ditzy girls date football players, and intelligent girls date emotionally distant men because they are smart enough to understand them. Lol, it’s problematic. And kind of implies that people who flirt openly are dumb, which is not necessarily fair.
Gina doesn’t know if she totally believes the idea that playing Hard to Get actually works on messaging, because she wants to give up if they take too long to respond.
When we were younger, it was much easier to start playing how long can you wait between response games! Maybe we should be more like Sissel’s parents and just let everyone know when we’ll be away from our phones prolongedly.
Hannah tells Maisie everywhere she’s going, especially on dates. Lucy stalks Gina on Find Your Friends. The rest of us are gonna be murdered.
Alcohol & Flirting
Sissel was always excited about people being drunk in college, because they acted the way she wanted to act all the time.
Flirting with alcohol can be fun! Some people use it as an excuse to be flirty. Sissel knows that being drunk makes her much better at being direct, and much better about touching people. One time in college she hosted a party and this guy was flirting with her, and because she was drunk and felt confident enough so she made him work for it! It was her most effective flirting ever. (They had sex). Sissel finds alcohol to be helpful because it takes her out of her head a bit.
Hannah likes flirting when drunk because you’re so much less in your head, and you can always run away. Drunk people do that, run away from things. When they’re happy it’s not usually so bad. When they are sad though… Gina ends up chasing friends down the street while wearing flip flops.
Apparently flip flops were more protective than bare feet from glass… debatable. But also we are accepting sponsorships from flip flops, red wine, and Moon Man.
Maisie can actually tell that she is flirting when she’s had alcohol! She also is more okay with touching people. Also people are more attractive!
Lucy feels sexier when she’s drunk, she also has better sex when drunk because she’s lost inhibitions. It’s just great.
Kelly’s last date was with a guy she met while drunk and it was a real letdown to meet him while sober. Maisie and Kelly are both very shy and so being drunk really helps!
Lucy is very good at pretending she’s an outgoing social extrovert. Hannah is a weird extrovert who likes to be involved and plan things but also wants to go home by 9pm. Sissel is different and just wants to be around people always. Lucy and Kelly require some sort of planning for their social interactions.
When Hannah is drunk the flirting has no expectations, and when she’s sober she has much more defined expectations.
Drunk Kelly and Lucy gets Sober Kelly and Lucy are not comfortable with.
Drunk Sissel wants the same thing Sober Sissel wants, so it’s usually fine.
Drunk Gina is rarely doing anything Sober Gina would be upset about.
What’s Your Drunk Personality?
Gina is a louder, confrontational, and spacey drunk.
Sissel gets hyper focused but also will immediately jump into a different situation with exuberance.
Kelly is a giggly drunk, also loving (wine drunk preferred, beer makes her a sad drunk).
Hannah is an amplified version of herself (spreadsheet Hannah, sorority Hannah).
Lucy is a confrontational drunk (or a completely silent drunk).
Maisie is mostly a silly drunk, but she is also an aggressive drunk. She’s been repressing her aggression for years, so it comes out every once in awhile. She was a childhood bully.
One day we’ll all get drunk together…
Drunk girls in the bathroom is legitimately the best place in the whole world. It’s such a supportive environment, it’s Johnathan Van Ness vibes.
When Flirting Goes Wrong
Gina one time accidentally left her car downtown, so she got an Uber, and was in a weird place emotionally so she started flirting with the driver, and almost immediately regretted it.
Gina is frustrated that women are supposed to decide immediately what they want from an interaction in order to avoid future awkwardness. It’s very confusing.
Sissel thinks that flirting is really hard when you’re younger because it feels like a big deal, or a promise, but it’s not! Those definitions were really illuminating because as she’s gotten older she’s started thinking of it as a tool but it wasn’t always like that, and those definitions really clarify that flirting is a frivolous activity!
We have been brainwashed by Cosmo and we aren’t sure how. Also by YA fiction that tells you flirting is a necessary skill to find your perfect man. It’s not. Flirting does not relate to finding your perfect partner.
Negging
Negging is an act of emotional manipulation whereby a person makes a deliberate backhanded compliment or otherwise flirtatious remark to another person to undermine their confidence and increase their need of the manipulator’s approval.
Wikipedia
Negging is used as a flirting tool by certain types of assholes. We do not support it!
In college, one of Gina’s drinking buddies was very impressed she knew what a neg was. She thinks he’s stupid, and the type of guys who use it immediately fall back when you call them on it. Because they use it to be sneaky.
Kelly finds it extremely unattractive.
Maisie was on the receiving end of a weird neg, a Spanish guy was shitting on the US with hopes she would defend US Girls. But she doesn’t think the US is so great so it wasn’t working… but she made out with him anyways.
Sissel has probably been negged. She probably fell for it.
There’s a fine line between negging and playful teasing. But negging feels very personal, and you’re trying to get a rise out of them, and it’s not reciprocal.
Teasing flirting is also very common, but also be careful not to hurt other’s feelings!
Negging is way worse though…
Did we come to any conclusions about flirting?
No. Not really. Be nice, have fun, and stay safe, friends.
Thank You For Listening!
We are all able-bodied, cisgendered white women. We know our background and experiences only cover a percentage of those around us which is why we want to supplement this with guest speakers, research, and you. If you have opinions and experiences you’d like to share we would love to hear it! If, however, you just want to spew hate at us then we can’t stop you but instead we invite you to suck our collective clitorises. Hater. This podcast also contains mature sexual themes and swearing. No, clitoris isn’t a swear word.
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